conversation with JFA III on june 21, 2015 asmara restaurant, telegraph ave. oakland, ca
j: So, we can first start with what mediums you’ve been using, ‘cause I feel like you don’t typically use pastels that much…
f: Yeah. It’s a huge departure from, like — everything I had been doing for a while had a sort of formula to it, where I was using kind of a set of materials that created an aesthetic effect that was consistent, and I really wanted to work on paper. I always like working on paper —
j: — which also made you break away from paints, right?
f: Yeah, totally. So I went to an art store, and I just bought what I felt like I needed to buy at the time, rather than basing my decision on what I knew worked.
j: What you were good at.
f: Yeah, exactly. I knew I wanted to make marks. I knew something inside of me was like, I need to make raw marks. With black pastel. I could see these orbs, these vortexes, these really chaotic energy kind of vortexes that I had to create. And I was like, oil pastels, spray paint, just regular house paint — I bought as limited of a color palette, as limited an amount of materials as I could. It wasn’t about what I was using. I mean, somewhat. But more about having to make something with the things I had, because I didn’t have a lot of money either.
j: That’s interesting. This is reminding me of primary process thinking versus secondary process thinking. Primary process is kind of what it sounds like: it’s about the process. Whereas secondary process thinking is when you’re sort of using a means to an end, like trying to achieve a logical goal. Trying to manifest some image you have. Primary process thinking is very prominent in children, like when they doodle they don’t really care if it looks like shit, or if they play an instrument, they’re not phased by whether or not they sound good.
f: That’s exactly what it was.
j: I feel like as an established artist, you have to mostly be in secondary process thinking because you need to make money, you need to think about what people like, if what you’re doing is offensive or illegal… You have to have this sort of logical checklist.
f: Yeah, and so much of my work that I have been making for so long — I realized after this really intense experience that really broke me back down to this core level of being, that a lot of the stuff I had made really did begin with that in mind, with this, “How am I gonna make this look cool?”
j: Or make it the most technically impressive thing you can. Just one-up something you did before.
f: And consistency, and…
j: Yeah. I think what was interesting about your recent work, it did kind of have this Basquiat vibe where it was very childish but in a way that — it’s not easy to be childish. It’s really not. As an adult, it’s not easy to be childish. To unlearn what you —
f: You can’t fake it.
j: And that nagging voice that’s telling you to shade something properly, or to add more detail, all the things you learned in art school or from society, it’s all engrained in us now and the older we get the harder it is to not listen to those voices. So when I think of Adventure Time, the TV show, it’s like a cartoon that’s just nonsense. This nonsense world. And I remember having this thought where I was just like — and Tim & Eric, stuff like that — “I can’t believe people get paid to write this shit.” But then I was like, wait, I totally can believe that, because it’s not easy to make a fleshed out nonsensical thing, you know?
f: Yeah, and to present it.
j: It’s not unintentional. It’s not haphazard. It’s very thought out, but broken away from what we’d normally think is sensible or good.
f: And I think that that’s a lot of what’s so different and so much purer to me about this work: I think that it’s extremely intentional, and a lot of the stuff before, when I look at it — I love it, and it was really important because it did convey what was going on. But some of it became unintentional because it was like, “How do I craft this into this thing that I’m trying to show you?” rather than just, “I need to convey what’s going on inside onto this piece of paper, and however that’s perceived by the world is gonna be how it’s perceived, but this is what I have to make right now. I’m not gonna overanalyze or over think it. I’m just gonna let it pour out.”